Cumbersa outelizador:Hexadecimal
- Botos de bun trabalho na Biquipédia!
Dear user, welcome to mirandese wikipédia, you are welcome here, yet, automatic translations aren't well seen here, and some of your edits are event not translated. Do you speak mirandese? Alchimista Fala comigo! 16h13min de 31 de Maio de 2013 (UTC)
All my edits are translated all right, and if I missed some, I'll translate them right away. Say which. I missed some back there, but I fixed them immediately. I got a little confused which is which, the languages. But now I'm getting the hang of it. The Mirandese doesn't have the tildes, as far as I noticed. Besides, I know enough Spanish to know what I'm doing. Now what's the problem with automatic translation. Hexadecimal (discussão) 18h37min de 31 de Maio de 2013 (UTC)
- Well, an automatic translation is an automatic translation, even the most accurate ones aren't enough to build an encyclopedia, and second, the only translator is built for translating from portuguese of Portugal, and when Brazilian Portuguese or other variant is used, the translation gets fuzzy. Furthermore, take the example of Arquibo de cumputador: "An anformática, un arquibo (português brasileiro) ou fexeiro (português europeu)" it has no meaning in Mirandese. You're also translating the entire wikitext, which means that new templates are being created, some in Portuguese, other's without a correct translation, and even the references have no meaning because some of them are being truncated. In the same example, you've mixed Portuguese of Portugal, Brazilian Portuguese and mirandese. Both the article body as the templates are in an ilogic form of Brazilian Portuguese grammar with mirandese words and bad translated ones, like "Bocé puode ajudar la Bikipédia". It's Biquipédia :P. This is why pure automatic translation aren't welcome here, because unless they're used by a native speaker, it causes a lot of problems. Alchimista Fala comigo! 20h10min de 31 de Maio de 2013 (UTC)
The translator you mean is this http://tradutormirandes.pt.vc/ ? That's what I've been using. I get what you mean about all the variants of portuguese coexisting in Wikipedia. I had no idea that could make a difference. Now, there's a gadget you can activate in your preferences called Conversor de idiomas. Then you gain access to a menu on the upper left bar where you can view the variant you want. I've noticed the translator has several flaws. It transforms all v's into b's and so damages all div tags, svg extensions. It also splits URLs near the dots. Sometimes, not always. I always fix that manually when I notice it. Regarding the templates, you don't worry. The most important thing is to have them rendering nicely. You don't have in Biquipédia all the templates in the english or portuguese Wikipedia. I have to copy them here. You can translate them afterwards whenever's more convenient. You see, each time you load a page, the templates in it are transcluded from their source. You just have to translate the source once, not each and every page. I had to do that with some templates with internlinks to already existing pages. Hexadecimal (discussão) 06h35min de 1 de Junho de 2013 (UTC)
- Look, your edits are quite a mess, please don't do more automatic translations. The "conversor de idiomas" is not accurate also, and reading the articles there's a lot of errors. There is mirandes mixed with Brazilian Portuguese, words that are brasilian portuguese only, and even the grammamr style is so different. And even templates have been terrible bad translated or not translated at all. I understand that you wish to help here, but automatic translations isn't the best option at all. Alchimista Fala comigo! 17h08min de 2 de Junho de 2013 (UTC)
Look, I've been translating all templates all right since yesterday. I've also been careful not to damage URLs and references. I just translated Devon and it's quite fine, as you can see for yourself if you take a look at it. Nothing is accurate. I'm not trying to create here the master-piece of my life, just giving a hand. If you notice something's wrong with the grammar, go ahead and fix it. Or tell me what's wrong. I bought today a Portuguese grammar and a dictionnary. I also found this http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_de_diferen%C3%A7as_lexicais_entre_vers%C3%B5es_da_l%C3%ADngua_portuguesa I also looked for stuff about Mirandese, but they're mostly written in Portuguese. I changed all arquibo de cumputador to fexeiro de cumputador I could find, and I did the same with banco de dados to base de dados. Everything takes time, all right? The english Wikipedia is also full American english. I understand you don't want any Brazilian words in your Wikipedia. I'm just begining to learn. Trem in Brazil, comboio in Portugal. So in Mirandese it is camboio. By the way, the translator also transforms trem into camboio. Keeping cool Hexadecimal (discussão) 17h34min de 2 de Junho de 2013 (UTC)
Take a look to Cúmbria. It's a short article, so there can't be many errors in it. Are there any errors in that article? If so, could you identify them for me, please? I'll take care of them myself. Hexadecimal (discussão) 18h27min de 2 de Junho de 2013 (UTC)
I just fixed Modelo:Asbox. It says now Tu puodes ajudar la Biquipédia spandindo-lo instead of Bocé puode ajudar ... That was your point, right? In Brazil everybody says Você, while in Portugal you only say it when you wish to be polite, otherwise you say Tu and conjugate the verb accordingly. I'm still struggling with this http://mirandes.no.sapo.pt/LMRNconvencao.pdf but in the tables on personal pronouns there is no word about a Bocé, so I guess in Mirandese people say always Tu, being an archaic language and all. In elder times we also spake Thou, not You, when adressing to a single person. Ok now? You see, with a bit of patience and a lot of work, there's nothing that can't be done. Cheers! Hexadecimal (discussão) 08h32min de 3 de Junho de 2013 (UTC)
- Look, this is my final warning. Like i've said before, automatic translations aren't welcome, you must find another way of helping. Too many terrible translations, in an understandable mirandese. I dont't doubt that you're tryng to help, but this is not the best way. Right now, there are hundreds of articles critically needing a revision. Please don't do more automaticly translations. And in the future, if someone contests your edits, don't force and keep doing them, simply discuss and when the doubts are dissipated, then you can continue. Alchimista Fala comigo! 16h53min de 3 de Junho de 2013 (UTC)
All right, mate. Let's dissipate the doubts: my last creation Ilha de Wight. Is it in an un-understandable mirandese? Can you identify any errors in it? Will you ever answer these two last questions at all, I wonder. Who says automatic translations aren't welcome? You? And who are you? What about the rest of the people around here? Nobody else has complained so far. Have I violated any policy? Must I stop editing because you're threatening me? You did, yeah, contest my edits. You said it's a mess, full of errors. What errors are those, what mess is that? You say nothing. What kind of discussion is that, will you tell me? Let's discuss what are the errors, what is the mess. When I get it, I won't make them again, all right? So far all that you've said is "don't". Now you say "don't, or else". Will it hurt? Or rather your next post will be the kind of when people are actually discussing? Ilha de Wight, please. Any errors at all? Hexadecimal (discussão) 18h21min de 3 de Junho de 2013 (UTC)
Hi. Forget that post just now. I got a little overheated. Please, don't threaten people like that. If you're a sysop you say "Mate, you're recurringly violating a rule, so the procedure is, if you do it again once more, I'll have to block you, sorry" That's more or less how people say things. At work I have a panic button, and when I read your "last warning" :-( my reflex was to go for it. Didn't push, though. :-)
All right. Heads cool. Mug of coffee at reach. Let's talk. I would like to pose you 2 questions. I would be grateful if you could answer them.
- Is there any rule in Biquipédia that forbids people from creating content with a machine translator? If so, could you provide me a link to it, please.
- You say there are hundreds of articles needing revision. I guess they need the kind of revision an article needs when it was created with the aid of a machine translator. Are they being revised at this moment? If not, why?
Thank you in advance. Hexadecimal (discussão) 19h04min de 3 de Junho de 2013 (UTC)
- Well, now that heads are cool, lets talk peacefully. It was discussed The answer to the first question is easy, because there is not the need to forbid automatically translations, that's pure common sense. You may check this discussion and the proper main page. This is common to all projects that i know, because it's really hard to get a good automatic translation.
- The answer to the second question is related to this answer. There is a lack of native speakers here, so bad articles brings two problems, the firs one is that when those native speakers who come to mwl, may have a terrible first impression. Imagine if you go to a website in your native language that has a lot of errors? In fact, even the automatic translator has his own bugs, some things aren't well translated. Alchimista Fala comigo! 21h26min de 6 de Junho de 2013 (UTC)
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